Did you know that companies with female executives consistently just make more money?

Listen Time: 35 Minutes

Is your executive team gender diverse? If the answer is “no,” then you’re losing money, valuable product design opportunities, and the top leadership qualities most men aspire to. Recent research proves again and again that gender-diverse leadership at the executive level regularly reports larger profit margins.

Together with hosts Peter and Brandon, Boykin dives into a nuanced exploration of how a gender-diverse executive team can boost profitability by 15-30%, the role spouses play in career achievement for women, and why so many women (43%!) exit their careers in tech after becoming mothers. 

That being said, trying to boost profits just by promoting new moms isn’t the only answer. And Boykin has the research to prove it.

“What I found is that it’s actually the social support systems that are making the biggest impact,” says Boykin. “Now, what does social support mean? It means that instead of companies offering memberships to gyms, they should be offering food delivery services, house cleaning services, grocery delivery services, and laundry services. Small shifts in the social structure, especially for roles that are traditionally associated with women, should be supported, and when that happens, productivity increases and expensive attrition decreases.”

So, how do we start advocating for these changes, for everyone from our growing daughters to our current female colleagues? And how, exactly, do we get more women on executive teams?

Find out for yourself from Dr. V Boykin in this newest episode of Smart Route podcast!

About Dr. Vrnda ‘V’ Boykin

Going back to school after 40 is not for the faint of heart.  Dr. Vrnda ‘V’ Boykin knows this well, having returned to school in 2017 and obtained her BS in Marketing Management, MS in Management and Leadership, Master of  Business Administration, and Doctorate of Business Administration.  Dr. V’s dissertation study was directly linked to understanding the social support structures necessary for women to have an equitable experience within the tech space and beyond, which in turn increases profitability, productivity, and decreases expensive attrition. Dr. V uses her knowledge and experience to disrupt organizational standards, challenge bias, and share key actions to craft and strengthen equitable workplace experiences and personal productivity.

Connect with Dr. Boykin at drvboykin.com or on LinkedIn! 

Episode Transcript

CTM Peter

Today I’m honored to have Dr. V Boykin, a true expert in creating a diverse and inclusive workplace, as our guest. With a wealth of knowledge, experience, and insight, Dr. Boykin will shed light on the importance of inclusion in the workplace and share thoughts on how to cultivate environments where every voice is not just heard, but valued. So whether you’re a seasoned executive trying to foster a culture of belonging or an individual navigating the complexities of workplace dynamics, join us on this enlightening journey towards a more inclusive future. Dr. Boykin, thank you for joining us today.

Dr. V Boykin: 

Thanks so much for having me. It’s great to be here.

Brandon Jordan: 

Awesome! Yes, definitely a pleasure to have you again. You know, very excited for this episode. We had an amazing time, right? Connecting. You know when we all initially met, lots of really great topics. I’m really excited. Um, definitely want to get your insight. You know we had a chance to kind of take a look at some of your background.

 So yeah, we’re very excited to have you. I know we had ah had an amazing time initially connecting you know on our first call and I’m personally excited to hear about um you know your experiences and then how that translates into the workplace. So very excited. So with that being said, my first question and one of the things I really wanted to know um the mate, the theme you know for International Women’s Day this year is you know to inspire inclusion and right you are at the forefront of you know of forging women’s equality. Um, you know what have you learned in your professional um and personal life experiences about the challenges that women face in obtaining workplace equality. If yeah.

Dr. V Boykin: 

Well, that’s a great question. I have all the solutions. That’s what I learned. Now, what I recently did my dissertation on is the social support systems that would allow women who work in tech to obtain and retain senior leadership positions. It was very interesting to me when I learned that 80% of women included in a study stated that it was their partner or spousal equivalent support that allowed them to ascend the ranks and also retain those positions. So I was like, well, this sounds like a real simple answer: all this, tell every woman to get married. But then I thought, okay, but you’ve been married. This is your fourth marriage and three previous were definitely not supportive, so it can’t be simply the obtaining of a spouse that’s offering the support. What I found in my study is that it is the social support that a spouse offers that actually allows women to thrive in the workplace. When you look at a 15 to 35% increase in profits when you have a gender-diverse executive team or the 20% plus profit gap when you remove that diversity from senior leadership, I was like, we’ve got to solve for this, right?

Dr. V Boykin: 

Additionally, there’s 43% of new mothers in tech they leave after their first child. So how do you equate that back to wanting to capture the profits and all of the benefits that come with a gender-diverse workforce with I mean this exodus of first-time mothers? What I found is that it’s actually the social support systems that are making the biggest impact. Now, to break that down, what does social support mean? It means that instead of companies offering memberships to gyms, they should be offering food delivery services, house cleaning services, grocery delivery services, laundry services. Small shifts in the social structure, especially for roles that are traditionally associated with women, should be supported, and when that happens, productivity increases and expensive attrition decreases.

Brandon Jordan: 

Wow, That’s to. It’s a really good way to put it right? Because there’s no one like cookie cutter solution, you know, to success, right? You know, a lot of women that you polled, you know, they had great spousal support. That’s awesome. Um, but it sounds like this social support, right? Kind of thinking outside of the box is what’s going to kind of take that to the next level. So thanks for really putting that in perspective. I appreciate it. Yeah, we love memes.

Dr. V Boykin: 

Absolutely. I saw a meme somewhere and they said if I knew, yeah, right? If I knew that I was going to spend the rest of my life deciding what was for dinner I would have stopped eating right or something like that, and it’s true. Like it takes up a lot of brain space. And when you’re thinking about what to make for dinner or what goes on the grocery list, you’re not strategizing. And women need to be strategizing. Another interesting fact, since COVID, the work-life balance for women has decreased by 38%. That means we’re doing 38% more work.

And then you add onto that 80% of women are doing chores in between meetings. So if I’m putting in laundry, and by the way, before recording this podcast where I’m this expert, I was doing laundry, wasn’t strategizing for this podcast. 

CTM Peter: 

So Dr. V, you are currently with HubSpot. We’re in that same technology space which can often come with its own set of gender bias or role stereotypes. What do you think are the biggest challenges as well as opportunities for women?

CTM Peter: 

Tech if you look to a more equitable future.

Dr. V Boykin: 

Well, I think a lot of it has to do with managers and how they’re viewing and allowing the narratives of members, especially female members of their team, to be perpetuated. Ninety-five percent of women in my study were told to be more and less assertive. Make the math make sense, you literally can’t do that. Ninety-one hundred percent of women in my study said that they wanted to advance in their professional career, but 90% of them said they have had to pass on an opportunity.

So you have 90% of the population not showing up with their talent, skills, and abilities. So I think a lot of it has to do with manager and manager support. Something else interesting that came out of the study that I was not expecting, not looking for, wasn’t even sure how I felt about it. But then, came around and celebrated it is that white males were the biggest advocates. They created the pathways for over eighty percent of my respondents to move to the next level. In fact, I had an incredible and still have incredible white males that are mentors. So I think that when you look across the landscape, what we really need to focus on is who is removing the obstacles and creating and clearing the path. Not even creating the path because women will create a path but clearing that path from the artificial barriers that exist and that has a lot to do with management. That has a lot to do with really not stopping at diversity, not stopping at inclusion but digging into belonging because once we get there, we need you to be ready for us.

CTM Peter: 

I love this stuff because I have a daughter in high school and I want all of these things for her. I want her to have every opportunity as everybody else. So what you’re talking about is music to my ears.

And I’m going to get her engaged with what you’re doing because I think it’s fantastic and until she kind of grew up and became a in my life I didn’t really put tune 2 together but now kind of going through this stuff I mean all the stuff just clicks in my head is like yes yes yes I want this for her.

She has every right to have these things as much as anybody else.

Brandon Jordan: 

Yeah, that’s a great point.

Dr. V Boykin: 

Well, that makes sense Peter. You’re a white male, you’re one of our biggest supporters, right? So thank you? Yes, yes, absolutely.

CTM Peter: 

I like it think so honestly I really would know it’s it’s important to me. What’s important to her is important to me and that I not.

Brandon Jordan: 

Yeah, I too have a daughter in high school as well, and I think something that really resonated with me is, you know, not just the diversity and the inclusion, and she’s looking to go into sales and marketing much like myself, right? It’s the belonging, right?

Dr. V Boykin: 

And oh.

Brandon Jordan: 

You know, taking it a step further. So, um, that’s something that I plan on kind of taking to heart there and making sure that that’s something that, you know, we focus on going forwards. I appreciate that nugget of knowledge there. Yes.

Dr. V Boykin: 

Your daughter is going to face an additional layer of intersectionality. So she’s going to be, and I’m being presumptuous but a black woman also in Tech and as, again being presumptuous and labeling you the black man in Tech, you’re few and far between so it’s nice to see you. It’s like we’ve seen a pegasus today.

Brandon Jordan: 

Yes, yeah, correct. Correct. Yeah.

Dr. V Boykin: 

Who knew, but it’s a very white landscape and it’s a very male-dominated landscape. Here’s something that’s very interesting about that. The leadership qualities that people value most are typically ascribed, and I’m going to use some gender norms here, but are typically ascribed to women: collaboration, conflict resolution, supportive behaviors, listening skills, right? And it goes on and on building of teams, building of communities. These are traditionally assigned female values. However, for some reason in the workplace, we attribute them, see them, and celebrate them in men, and men are actually typically invested in leadership programs that allow them to bring out and become comfortable with these traits. So we have something that women have innately, and when I say women, what I really mean is estrogen. Estrogen produces these behaviors, and then we ask men that typically don’t have these as accessible.

Because of testosterone, which are protection and trigger different things, yet it doesn’t merge together that hey, inherently, potentially according to some studies, so according to some science, women are actually better leaders, yet the landscape when you look across for managers is white male. There are allies. I want y’all there. However, there needs to be room for others because it’s good for business.

Brandon Jordan: 

It’s a great point. I think to that point, my next question, right? So we talked about maybe like tech-specific, as an industry. But what do you think it takes to achieve, and I know you talked about social support as well, but what do you think it takes to achieve a gender-equal world and not just the workplace but the world and these social support systems? What is it going to take to achieve that? And then it’s a two-part question, you know, in that case, right? Who would your biggest cheerleaders be and then, do you specifically have any mentors that were your inspiration going, you know, in the past or even currently, yes?

Dr. V Boykin: 

Oh, so what is it? What is it going to take? In 2018, there were more male CEOs named James than there were women CEOs in the STEM industry. Let’s take a deep breath on that. What is it going to take? Um…

Brandon Jordan: 

Wow, yeah, um…

Dr. V Boykin: 

So in 2018, there were more male CEOs named James than there were women CEOs in the STEM industry. When you add to that what I discovered in my study, which is over 80% of respondents stated every single one of them had come in contact with a man that had discouraged them. In many cases, it was their spouse or their immediate nuclear family member who was male, and it’s hard to even get those words out because it’s still… that’s just so deep, right? That’s just so deep. So what is it going to take? It’s going to take our male counterparts to stop telling us, messaging us, and having us believe that we’re not equal. That’s number one. Number two, it’s going to take some really courageous people to say, you know what? Thank you for the job offer. But I happen to know that she’s smarter than me. I happen to know that she outworks me. And I happen to know that she has a better strategy than me. And when I look across the landscape, I know that putting her in that position is going to boost the stock price of this company. I happen to know that science says I want to invest in her career growth and future. And many people will say, “Why do I need to step back for them to step forward? Why does it have to be taken from me?” It’s not being taken from you. It’s artificially been given to you.

CTM Peter: 

Yeah, yep.

Dr. V Boykin: 

Right? So let’s get uncomfortable talking about it. You had an advantage because your name was John. You had an advantage because your name was easy to pronounce. You had an advantage because you had that network. It doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t celebrate that advantage. It means that you darn well…

Brandon Jordan: 

It’s a good point, yeah yeah.

Dr. V Boykin: 

…but bring someone along with you. And if you want to capture 15 to 35% more profit, you might want to bring a woman with you. And that’s what it’s going to take.

Brandon Jordan: 

I mean, I think you said something, obviously the entire thought was amazing, but one thing that stuck out to me is being uncomfortable, right? You know, as we’re looking across, we’re at these kind of jaw-dropping facts, a lot of growth happens when you are uncomfortable, right? You’re having these conversations and you’re implementing them. So thank you for bringing that to light. Um, because it is not a conversation that comes up often, especially being a man, being in tech, or being in corporate America per se. I think this is a great way for anyone listening watching, get uncomfortable. Let’s have these conversations and let’s see some change for sure.

Dr. V Boykin: 

So then I have a question because both of you are delightful. But I’m also being interviewed by 2 men. I appreciate you didn’t tokenize a female for this. But how do you reconcile that and how would you change that and what difference would you make?

Brandon Jordan: 

Yes.

Dr. V Boykin: 

And is your tech person a woman or is the person writing the questions for this a woman? Where do you have that additional influence? Because your program, your podcast, will be enriched by it. I think from the little media training I had, you’re not supposed to make enemies of the host.

Brandon Jordan: 

We are going to be friends, and I think, to the last point, being uncomfortable, when we do this podcast and we talk about our guests and how excited we are, and yeah, a lot of the questions.

Dr. V Boykin: 

So are we still friends after saying it next?

Brandon Jordan: 

Um, we work with our marketing team and yeah, we do work with a lot of women. We come together and say, “How can we best serve our audience?” We want this to be fulfilling.

Dr. V Boykin: 

You do.

Brandon Jordan: 

Your process for you as well, we want you to learn something, not a joke about yourself or us, but call trackingmetrics in general. So I think we take a very holistic approach when it comes to not just who we’re interviewing but who is going to do the interview, what questions we come up with, and what message we want to get out. So thank you for bringing that up, it may seem like an uncomfortable question, but it’s something that we definitely have conversations about, so I appreciate it, yes, absolutely.

Dr. V Boykin: 

For sure, and it’s normalizing those questions. When you talk about what you can do right now, you both have daughters. What toys are they playing with? Because in the 1980s, computers were predominantly seen as toys for boys and that cultural stigma still exists. Coding.

Brandon Jordan: 

So. Um, yeah, yeah.

Dr. V Boykin: 

Think of the male computer geek sitting behind the keyboard is not just a geek. It’s a male computer geek that pops to mind. So really making sure that within our own homes, what we’re giving people to play with and interact with, maybe it’s summer camp, maybe it’s STEM camp.

Brandon Jordan: 

Yep. Yeah, yes, I was gonna say do you have a number for it.

Dr. V Boykin: 

You know, and those differences because women are phenomenally brilliant at science. Okay, now I don’t have a stat for that, that’s just my gut. I don’t have a number for that. I can tell you that 16% of women pursuing higher education focus on STEM fields. Um, and 18% of women in tech hold leadership roles, so there’s a disparity there.

CTM Peter: 

My daughter went to Science Camp last year against her will but in the end she loved it. She was one of the few females to go to the science camp.

Dr. V Boykin: 

Um, yes, yes, yes.

CTM Peter: 

And she excelled, she came out of it a different person. We were expecting to go pick her up and she would say, “Oh, it was terrible,” but she would not stop talking about it. It was fantastic to see this transformation in her. Plus, you know, she was one of a handful of females that were there, mostly dominated by male campers because it was a Science camp.

Dr. V Boykin: 

Yeah, yeah.

CTM Peter: 

It changed her, it really did. There was a different person that emerged from that one week away. She came out empowered for lack of a better description. It was a beautiful thing to see in her. So when you say these things like we’re talking about.

Dr. V Boykin: 

For sure, and it’s normalizing those questions. When you talk about what you can do right now, you both have daughters. What toys are they playing with? Because in the 1980s, computers were predominantly seen as toys for boys, and that cultural stigma still exists in coding.

CTM Peter: 

So, um, yeah, yeah.

Dr. V Boykin: 

Think of the male computer geek sitting behind the keyboard is not just a geek. It’s a male computer geek that pops to mind. So really making sure that within our own homes, what we’re giving people to play with and interact with. Maybe it’s summer camp, maybe it’s STEM camp.

Brandon Jordan: 

Yep, yeah, I was gonna say, do you have a number for it?

Dr. V Boykin: 

You know, and those differences because women are phenomenally brilliant at science. Okay, now I don’t have a stat for that. That’s just my gut. I don’t have a number for that. I can tell you that 16% of women pursuing higher education focus on STEM fields, and 18% of women in tech hold leadership roles. So there’s a disparity there.

Brandon Jordan: 

Nice.

CTM Peter: 

My daughter went to Science Camp last year against her will, but in the end, she loved it. She was one of the few females at the science camp.

Dr. V Boykin: 

Um, yes, yes, yes.

CTM Peter: 

And she excelled. She came out of it a different person. We were expecting to go pick her up, say, “Oh, it was terrible,” and she would not stop talking about it. It was fantastic to see this transformation in her. Plus, she was one of a handful of females that were there, mostly dominated by male campers because it was Science camp.

Dr. V Boykin: 

Yeah, yeah.

CTM Peter: 

It changed her, it really did. There was a different person that emerged from that one week away. She came out empowered, for lack of a better description. It was a beautiful thing to see in her. So when you say this, you know, the things we’re talking about.

Dr. V Boykin:

Um, yeah.

CTM Peter: 

I mean, all this stuff hits home. I’m cataloging all of these things so I can have these conversations with my daughter down the road too.

Dr. V Boykin: 

I love that, and I think what I love even more than the fact that she got the exposure to STEM content is the fact that she must have learned how to speak up in a room full of men. And that can be extremely uncomfortable. The last thing you want to be seen as is assertive. And if you’re a black woman like me, the last thing you want to be labeled as is angry. And somehow when we put our voices forward, like I said, 95% of us are told to be more and less assertive every single year of my professional career I have been told to fix my face in some form or fashion.

Brandon Jordan: 

I was just wondering, gentlemen, how many times have you been told to fix your face? Oh, imagine that. So one action you can do is when you hear that and you’re feedback about that, I would love for someone to circle back around to my manager and say, “You know what?”

CTM Peter: 

Not often.

Brandon Jordan: 

Doesn’t happen often. Ah.

Dr. V Boykin: 

Have we talked about her output? Can we talk less about attitude as long as you’re showing up as professional and the best you can in the circumstances you’re in, and start talking about accomplishments. You know, when it’s Black History Month, can you post? Instead of making the black person do it, when it’s International Women’s Day, can you post? When you see a woman posting about her accomplishments, can you amplify that? Can you expand that? Can you post it in several other places? If every time there was someone from a marginalized community, a woman BIPOC, Black indigenous person of color, if every time you saw their accomplishments, you reposted it to places, this world would change.

Brandon Jordan: 

That’s an awesome drop, drops my fear. I get, Peter, I can see you processing. You’re like, “Man, it’s this.” Ah, that’s awesome. Yeah.

Dr. V Boykin: 

I’ll wait. Yeah, I’ll wait. I’m from um, not have a sales background. I love a quiet room. I’ll wait.

CTM Peter: 

Quiet room is can be a good thing. A lot of times. Yeah.

CTM Peter: 

How does having a diverse and inclusive workplace including an executive leadership team benefit an organization?

Dr. V Boykin: 

Right? So I think besides the profits, the increased profits of 15 to 35%, or the profit gap of 21. There are critical misses that happen when you exclude people from the room. And it’s not just, you know, the other side of inclusion is exclusion. So if you look around and you are looking at your executive team or you are looking at a readout or you are looking at a panel discussion or a fireside chat and it’s all males. That’s exclusion. We can’t just call it a lack of inclusion, we gotta call it what it is. But think about what happens in terms of a car airbag. They’re unsafe for women and the expense of only using male dummies to test that was deep within the auto industry. You think about what’s going on now with artificial intelligence and how it was designed and it didn’t realize, oh, there’s black faces and I need to be able to read those as well. In the same way you think about the profiling that goes on by police using artificial intelligence, right? “Oh, this is that person, it looks like that.” But no, it’s not that person and we don’t all look alike so when you exclude people, you miss that. You also miss simple things like a slide deck. And maybe it’s a slide deck to a customer and for some reason.

Dr. V Boykin: 

You decided to use cartoons because you wanted to be inclusive but all of your cartoons are a shade of white. Your cartoons aren’t all black people and 1 white person or all Hispanic people and 1 white person, right? You look at that slide and you’re like, “I got one of them. I got one of them, good to go. Let’s ship.” And then you get in front of their your customer and you may never hear the feedback but they may go with someone when making a buying decision and I see in your deck that you weren’t inclusive and you were exclusive, I have a bias against you. So it’s from the macro to the micro. I’ll never forget I was sitting, interviewing for a leadership role and the person had no black people in their slides. The person had no people of color in their slides and the person only had fit, trim, attractive white people. How can I say I want you leading a team of diverse people when you don’t even recognize when there’s a lack of diversity? They should have phoned a friend. They should have gotten some awareness. They should have looked deeper but they didn’t even know it was missing. So how does it impact companies?

Brandon Jordan: 

With action.

Dr. V Boykin: 

It impacts them all the way from the c-suite all the way down to the individual contributor level and it may actually impact your ability to get a job because you can’t see around corners that you didn’t know were there.

CTM Peter: 

Nice.

Brandon Jordan: 

It’s a great point. I think ah, right the entire time we’ve been talking about inspiring and you know inclusion but it just like you said it affects your bottom line, right? When you choose to ignore that and choose to not focus on diversity and inclusion, whether it’s in your leadership team or even in your deck that you send out to a prospect, ultimately, it can affect your bottom line. So definitely thank you for that point, something we have to continue to focus on for sure. Um, as we think about women who are looking to inspire inclusion across different industries and at their company, two different mindsets, right? So you have a woman who’s just starting out in their career and then maybe you have someone who’s more tenured. What advice would you give to each of those women? Right? You know, the early-on, you early-on setters, more seasoned, more tenured. Um, what advice would you give them when it comes to inspiring inclusion in their workplace?

Dr. V Boykin: 

So I love this. So number one I would tell them to get a mentor and a sponsor, right? I have never and remain rooted that I will never ever refuse a connection request, I’ll never not give somebody 15 minutes of my time ever. So reach out to people, be bold about it. Um, it will probably flatter them more than anything and then when you get on that call, ask them, ask them? What do I need to know um, and what I would share on that call is number 1 you are going to be tempted especially if you have any intersectionality meaning you have 1 marginalized group colliding with another marginalized group. You are going to be tempted to lead with your accomplishments. I am going to be tempted to start this podcast by saying I’ve a bachelor’s in marketing management and a masters in organizational leadership and an MBA and then a doctorate in organizational leadership as well. You’re going to be tempted to lead with that and you need to find your Martha’s Vineyard, you need to find your Block Island, you need to allow people to de-risk you as a person. So you want to go in full force because you may not get in the room again but spend the time every business is a people first business, every business. So don’t forget that. And also remember that people like to talk about themselves so you don’t have to share everything. In fact, you could just ask a good, well-placed, open-ended question and allow them to talk about themselves a like you much better and they’re de-risking you to sit beside them at a leadership table. So early in your career establish. What your brand is, what do you want to be known for and do not deviate from that.

Whatever your core values are, those must remain your core values. You can modify them but you need to modify them with intention not because the wind changed direction. So that’s what I would tell someone young starting out, someone I would tell someone more seasoned, someone who’s in their 50s plus like me, welcome to the 50s club.

Is by this stage in your career, you should have social capital to expend and you should expend that social capital advocating, lobbying, and correcting the injustices that you see whether that’s on an individual level with somebody who’s not getting a fair shake. Or if it’s on a macro level where you see programmatic problems you have social capital and it is. You do not have to complete the work of this world. You do not have to write every wrong, but you’re not free to ignore it, a loose interpretation from the Talmud. But you have a responsibility. It is an unfair burden but that doesn’t release you from it. So expend that social capital and smooth right? The roads are laid down but not all of them are paved pave some roads. That’s what I would say.

CTM Peter: 

Love that, you know those of us that are veterans of life and that should just be part of our every day, you know, been around long enough to see this stuff been around long enough to know that we have to make a change and it’s up to all of us, I mean it really is.

Brandon Jordan:

 Fear. That’s it.

It’s a great point. I think, ah, right the entire time we’ve been talking about inspiring and you know inclusion but it just like you said it affects your bottom line, right? When you choose to ignore that and choose to not focus on diversity and inclusion, whether it’s in your leadership team or even in your deck that you send out to a prospect, ultimately, it can affect your bottom line. So definitely thank you for that point, something we have to continue to focus on for sure. Um, as we think about women who are looking to inspire inclusion across different industries and at their company, two different mindsets, right? So you have a woman who’s just starting out in their career and then maybe you have someone who’s more tenured. What advice would you give to each of those women? Right? You know, the early-on, you early-on setters, more seasoned, more tenured. Um, what advice would you give them when it comes to inspiring inclusion in their workplace?

Dr. V Boykin: 

Um, it is if individuals I gonna say if individuals did more things there wouldn’t be these global problems.

CTM Peter: 

There fact.

Brandon Jordan: 

Absolutely yeah I like I like the advice you give for you know someone starting out you know finding a mentor and um, you know making you know themselves more accessible and I think that’s that’s really great advice. A lot of times people come in and you know they’re dealing with so many different things and. Try to make a name build a brand but just reaching out to someone you know who’s been through what you’ve been through right? You know even looking at the inverse of looking at that seasoned person you know, reaching out having that conversation. You know what do I need to do right? put yourself out there. You know, be assertive right? Um I think that’s a great point. Um, and you know something for our listeners right? You know keep that in mind as as you guys are starting out. You know, get with the mentor get with someone who’s going to help you get to where you want to be and again ultimately you know helping to you know, build inclusion and diversity and you know leading to all these great things not just for your brand. But. For your company as well. So great. Great advice, great advice.

Dr. V Boykin: 

I have an executive coach. My executive coach is a white male. His name is Dan Tyer well known in the HubSpot and beyond ecosystem. But I have a white male as a coach.

Brandon Jordan: 

Vision there.

Dr. V Boykin: 

Have a white male that when I tell him things and tell him situations. It’s not the first time he’s heard it because he works in the space he works in the space of belonging and it is so important to have someone who has successfully navigated a landscape that is unfamiliar and at times hostile to you. It is so important to have someone hold your lantern that knows where the path is There’s a reason that you get a tour guide right? So why not get a professional tour guide that can point out the interesting historical facts along the way that you may not be privy to.

CTM Peter: 

I had no idea, that’s it. Never really think twice enough.

Brandon Jordan: 

Yeah.

Dr. V Boykin: 

Well, you’re a white male. You wouldn’t have to have an idea, right? That it doesn’t I would imagine that. Yeah, I talk with my husband a lot and he would get out at the gas station and leave the door open sometimes as he was pumping gas and I was. Freaked out by it I’m like I’m I’m a female if I leave a door open somebody could jump in and whisk me away. He’s like I I never thought of it as a safety thing and he’s one of the most safety-minded people that I know there’s things that women think about and things that black indigenous people of color and people from marginalized communities and people that are gender fluid think about. That we never do gaps in bathroom stall doors. You know when as a woman when I go in there. That’s not something I want to think about but if I’m transitioning genders it’s something I definitely think about so that’s again why diversity is so important because there’s perspectives and things that people go through that don’t impact you. And you miss them. It’s like when ah 1 of the genders held up I don’t know was it Coke or Pepsi it was a soda can and it mimicked the the Black Lives Matter movement total fail of a campaign total fail of a campaign but everybody in that room didn’t understand what that additional subliminal messaging would be or if they were in the room. They weren’t listened to so again if you care about profits you want to create equitable solutions. So that people can perform at their best you want to include diverse voices. You want to make sure people are included in the conversation and you want to make sure they belong so they don’t leave and drive up your attrition cost.

CTM Peter: 

Fascinating.

Brandon Jordan: 

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, this has been this has been an eye-opening and inspiring very informative conversation. Definitely a lot of key points to take home and I hope you know our listeners are as inspired. Ah, as we are I know Peter and I had a conversation after we all first met and. Again, we were super excited and we knew that this would be the result. So thank you for delivering. Ah, thank you for such an inspiring you know conversation today before we close out. Um, there’s always two things we do at the end, right? So 1 um, is there anything that you’d like to plug any projects anything upcoming that you’d like to plug that you’re working on?

Dr. V Boykin: 

Oh gosh first of all I’d love to encourage people to read my dissertation which can be found on DrVBoykin.com and second I would love for people to bring me into their company. So I can make people uncomfortable which will only increase your profit so those are the 2 things that I would ask and.

Brandon Jordan: 

Okay. Here We go very good.

Dr. V Boykin: 

The third thing and and the final thought I would like to leave people with is at the end of the day. The human experience right? The human experience is is a gathering point. It’s not a a separation or cause for separation we can accomplish so much more together and as much as I joke and tease and prod. I have such an appreciation for the humanity in the individual person. So as people are listening as they’re uncomfortable know that there’s an underlying theme of love and acceptance and support because everybody deserves to belong.

Brandon Jordan: 

I love that, be uncomfortable with love and support I love it. Yeah and then the last thing Peter I know um we always you know we’re we’re big foodies here right? So kind of shifting gears a bit. Um right to kind of end on on a different note.

Dr. V Boykin: 

Yes, yes.

Brandon Jordan: 

Um, your favorite food right? But what’s your favorite food I know like I’m a big seafood guy I know Peter has his favorites. Um, and and how do you like to prepare. Do you do you go out to eat. It is it something you cook at home. But yeah, what? What? What is your favorite food. Okay.

Dr. V Boykin: 

I’m going to give you 2 answers. The first one is be it would be my favorite food is any food that a woman doesn’t have to cook.

Brandon Jordan: 

Ah, yes, yes.

Dr. V Boykin: 

So there’s that and then um, you know I I spent a lot of time growing up on the on the coast of Virginia so I like blue crabs I like them steamed I still steam them in my house myself I don’t need butter.

Brandon Jordan:

 Okay. And.

Dr. V Boykin: 

I mean if it’s a great day I get a knife with it. But that was kind of the rite of passage. How fast can you pick a crab I tend to eat about 30 to 35 in a sitting so I take it there. That’s my that’s my jam. That’s the most amazing thing about me there you go.

Brandon Jordan: 

Oh man, that’s beautiful, right up right on my alley. Ah, you can pick a crab no knife. That’s awesome.

CTM Peter: 

That’s amazing.

Dr. V Boykin: 

Government expert expert level.

CTM Peter: 

My wife was born and raised in Maryland so blue crabs were just part of her existence and when we moved from California out to Maryland first time we went out for crabs met up with some of her friends and were sitting down I didn’t know what to do and the person next to me looks summer. Go.

Brandon Jordan: 

That is awesome. Thank you? Yep I.

CTM Peter: 

They looked right? at me said you’re not from here. Are you as I was trying to take my travel of parties I No I got a lesson and I never forgot you might think I’m a local at this point.

Dr. V Boykin: 

There are.

Brandon Jordan: 

That’s right there you go.

Dr. V Boykin: 

So homeboys crabs in Maryland used to have some of the best crabs they throw it in a brown bag I don’t know what was in the seasoning but I was happy to be addicted to it when I lived in Maryland so I get it.

Brandon Jordan: 

That’s awesome. We love to love seafood and we love seafood lovers as well. You know, absolutely go. But yeah, so good Peters are.

Dr. V Boykin: 

There you go tribe tribe.

CTM Peter: 

Ah, no, that’s it that I’m just going to chat and I think we’ve hit the end of our road.

Dr. V Boykin: 

And well thank you so much for having me. It’s been a pleasure.

Brandon Jordan: 

Yeah, been great.

CTM Peter: 

Really nice, very insightful. Um I come away with lot again talking about my daughter earlier because one of the things I noticed on your site too is you have a link to the was that the hundred k mentor challenge that stood right out to me right away because I kind of reading through it.

CTM Peter: 

That’s my daughter she needs this and this and this so I started thinking about this like we’re gonna go check that out. She needs something like that.

Dr. V Boykin: 

Good yeah, every woman trying to get somewhere needs that because of the artificially imposed traditional roles now and I also like to say this and I think this is important just for the general context of the conversation. I pack. My husband’s lunch every night I put a note in there as well. I cook dinner I would say probably 5 nights a week I do all the laundry in the house I also do not open doors and I do not lift heavy things and I do not open boxes I actually have a pretty traditional family. That being said, that’s a choice as opposed to a mandate and I think that’s what makes all the difference. So. It’s okay to have separation of roles. It’s okay to have gender nuances I’m not anti traditional family I’m very pro traditional family by choice. And in the right way.

Brandon Jordan: 

Yeah, it’s a huge difference. Yeah I love it? Well yeah, thank you, Thank you for joining. It’s been ah been a pleasure. Um, definitely a lot ah lot of ah lot of very insightful pieces to take take home and we really appreciate you. You taking off the time to meet with us and.

CTM Peter: 

Here here.

Dr. V Boykin: 

Um, yeah, thank you.

Brandon Jordan: 

Share some knowledge with us today. Yeah yes, absolutely awesome. All right. Thanks Dr. Point and we appreciate it.

Dr. V Boykin: 

Thank you! It’s been great.